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	<title>Comments for The Business Ethics Blog</title>
	<atom:link href="http://businessethicsblog.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://businessethicsblog.com</link>
	<description>A blog about Business Ethics by Chris MacDonald, Ph.D.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:27:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Business Ethics &amp; Pride in a Job Well Done by Judi Keller</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2012/02/20/business-ethics-pride-in-a-job-well-done/#comment-5811</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Judi Keller]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://businessethicsblog.com/?p=5975#comment-5811</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My shoes usually don&#039;t last as long as their laces!  Makes me wonder if the shoe manufacturers expect more from their suppliers than from their core product.  Just my 2 cents]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My shoes usually don&#8217;t last as long as their laces!  Makes me wonder if the shoe manufacturers expect more from their suppliers than from their core product.  Just my 2 cents</p>
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		<title>Comment on Business Ethics &amp; Pride in a Job Well Done by Chris MacDonald</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2012/02/20/business-ethics-pride-in-a-job-well-done/#comment-5810</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris MacDonald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://businessethicsblog.com/?p=5975#comment-5810</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Bob. I think those are both consistent with my point here. I suspect though that your first scenario (the non-ethics one) plays a rather small role. I suspect the number of people who track where cheap, anonymous consumer goods like shoe laces come from is small. Some people may have a place where they habitually buy their laces, but I suspect far more do not!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Bob. I think those are both consistent with my point here. I suspect though that your first scenario (the non-ethics one) plays a rather small role. I suspect the number of people who track where cheap, anonymous consumer goods like shoe laces come from is small. Some people may have a place where they habitually buy their laces, but I suspect far more do not!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Business Ethics &amp; Pride in a Job Well Done by Robert Czerny</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2012/02/20/business-ethics-pride-in-a-job-well-done/#comment-5809</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Robert Czerny]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:26:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://businessethicsblog.com/?p=5975#comment-5809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How about two additional perspectives: 

At the retail end of the chain, you have a shoe store that sells shoe-laces (separately or &#039;packeaged&#039; with shoes) priced at a fraction of the price of their main product, the shoes. It would be &quot;penny wise pound foolish&quot; to carry poor quality laces (for the sake of a very small difference in cost) and thereby risk future sales of shoes because customers come to regard the shoe store as unreliable.

That is a non-ethics, business-reasoning approach. An additional ethics perspective would imagine a mission discussion at the shoe-lace plant where workers and management decide to look at the ramifications of producing high versus low quality. They might think, for instance, of the disastrous consequences of someone losing a shoe in an emergency situation. Yes, we can think about corporate social responsibility ... even on a shoe-string!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about two additional perspectives: </p>
<p>At the retail end of the chain, you have a shoe store that sells shoe-laces (separately or &#8216;packeaged&#8217; with shoes) priced at a fraction of the price of their main product, the shoes. It would be &#8220;penny wise pound foolish&#8221; to carry poor quality laces (for the sake of a very small difference in cost) and thereby risk future sales of shoes because customers come to regard the shoe store as unreliable.</p>
<p>That is a non-ethics, business-reasoning approach. An additional ethics perspective would imagine a mission discussion at the shoe-lace plant where workers and management decide to look at the ramifications of producing high versus low quality. They might think, for instance, of the disastrous consequences of someone losing a shoe in an emergency situation. Yes, we can think about corporate social responsibility &#8230; even on a shoe-string!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Business Ethics &amp; Pride in a Job Well Done by gilessimon</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2012/02/20/business-ethics-pride-in-a-job-well-done/#comment-5805</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gilessimon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://businessethicsblog.com/?p=5975#comment-5805</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reblogged this on &lt;a href=&quot;http://ethicalbusinessblog.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/17/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ethical business blog&lt;/a&gt; and commented: 
An interesting article here - ethical business not always about heroic and saintly acts but can simply be about taking pride in doing a job well and fairly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reblogged this on <a href="http://ethicalbusinessblog.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/17/" rel="nofollow">Ethical business blog</a> and commented:<br />
An interesting article here &#8211; ethical business not always about heroic and saintly acts but can simply be about taking pride in doing a job well and fairly.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ethical Consumerism is Hard by Chris MacDonald</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2012/02/14/ethical-consumerism-is-hard/#comment-5779</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris MacDonald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://businessethicsblog.com/?p=5929#comment-5779</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good questions!

My worry is not at all the indeterminacy of the relevant science. Even when all the facts are in, we can still face deep dilemmas, since (to return to the wind-farm example) there&#039;s math to tell us which is more important ethically -- reducing pollution or avoiding killing.

And nor is the problem that there are *no* ultimate ethical principles. There may well be. And even without those, we can certainly reach agreement on *some* issues because some points of view are not supported by decent arguments (from basic principles to practical conclusions). My claim here is a more modest one, namely that for at least *some* issues, we are likely to find that there are deep ideological differences -- where people&#039;s moral POV is deeply bound up with their own self-conception -- that make resolving moral debate literally hopeless. For example, I think the debate over GM foods is in that terrain. At very least, I think the likelihood of &quot;near-term&quot; agreement is next to nil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good questions!</p>
<p>My worry is not at all the indeterminacy of the relevant science. Even when all the facts are in, we can still face deep dilemmas, since (to return to the wind-farm example) there&#8217;s math to tell us which is more important ethically &#8212; reducing pollution or avoiding killing.</p>
<p>And nor is the problem that there are *no* ultimate ethical principles. There may well be. And even without those, we can certainly reach agreement on *some* issues because some points of view are not supported by decent arguments (from basic principles to practical conclusions). My claim here is a more modest one, namely that for at least *some* issues, we are likely to find that there are deep ideological differences &#8212; where people&#8217;s moral POV is deeply bound up with their own self-conception &#8212; that make resolving moral debate literally hopeless. For example, I think the debate over GM foods is in that terrain. At very least, I think the likelihood of &#8220;near-term&#8221; agreement is next to nil.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ethical Consumerism is Hard by Tom Simcoe</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2012/02/14/ethical-consumerism-is-hard/#comment-5774</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Simcoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 02:57:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://businessethicsblog.com/?p=5929#comment-5774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So is the problem in your example that we don&#039;t have a principle to help us conclusively decide what the most ethical result is (e.g. we must choose the farming practice that provides the greatest benefit to the most people) or because we don&#039;t have the science to answer the question? If it is the former, is it because ethics can&#039;t provide a universal rule, or because there are competing ethical philosophies and we haven&#039;t been able to sort it out?

Forgive me for drilling on this issue, but it&#039;s a troubling one for me. If we believe that there ultimately is an ethical rule that should guide us, then your answer of &quot;purchasing according to values that matter to you&quot; means it arguably shouldn&#039;t make a difference if the value that matters most to me leads to a less ethical result simply because it is too complicated to get to an answer. Clearly, that&#039;s not how ethically motivated consumers think. They believe there is a right answer, and if they find it they will abide by it. The value that matters to me is the right one - neither choice is has moral value independent of that quality.

On the other hand, if there is no ultimate ethical rule, then is ethics just a matter of personal preference among theories? I understand that you are not saying this, but I don&#039;t quite see how we avoid the conclusion.  There are competing theories, and neither is really right, so choose the one you like best. It seems that this answer is being rejected at the end of the day, and we are left with consumers striving for a grand answer.

That leaves the problem in your example being that we have the ethical principles, but not the science, to answer the question. If the science is unclear, shouldn&#039;t the answer be to go with the approach that has the strongest data supporting it? This I can live with.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is the problem in your example that we don&#8217;t have a principle to help us conclusively decide what the most ethical result is (e.g. we must choose the farming practice that provides the greatest benefit to the most people) or because we don&#8217;t have the science to answer the question? If it is the former, is it because ethics can&#8217;t provide a universal rule, or because there are competing ethical philosophies and we haven&#8217;t been able to sort it out?</p>
<p>Forgive me for drilling on this issue, but it&#8217;s a troubling one for me. If we believe that there ultimately is an ethical rule that should guide us, then your answer of &#8220;purchasing according to values that matter to you&#8221; means it arguably shouldn&#8217;t make a difference if the value that matters most to me leads to a less ethical result simply because it is too complicated to get to an answer. Clearly, that&#8217;s not how ethically motivated consumers think. They believe there is a right answer, and if they find it they will abide by it. The value that matters to me is the right one &#8211; neither choice is has moral value independent of that quality.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if there is no ultimate ethical rule, then is ethics just a matter of personal preference among theories? I understand that you are not saying this, but I don&#8217;t quite see how we avoid the conclusion.  There are competing theories, and neither is really right, so choose the one you like best. It seems that this answer is being rejected at the end of the day, and we are left with consumers striving for a grand answer.</p>
<p>That leaves the problem in your example being that we have the ethical principles, but not the science, to answer the question. If the science is unclear, shouldn&#8217;t the answer be to go with the approach that has the strongest data supporting it? This I can live with.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ethical Consumerism is Hard by Chris MacDonald</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2012/02/14/ethical-consumerism-is-hard/#comment-5773</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chris MacDonald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 01:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://businessethicsblog.com/?p=5929#comment-5773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tom:

No, I&#039;m not saying there are never right answers. I&#039;m saying things are complicated. In at least some cases, I think there&#039;s little hope of arriving at a best answer (e.g., organic vs mainstream agriculture), in which case we may need to settle for making purchases that align with our personal values. But we shouldn&#039;t rush to that conclusion in any particular instance. It&#039;s still important to think carefully.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom:</p>
<p>No, I&#8217;m not saying there are never right answers. I&#8217;m saying things are complicated. In at least some cases, I think there&#8217;s little hope of arriving at a best answer (e.g., organic vs mainstream agriculture), in which case we may need to settle for making purchases that align with our personal values. But we shouldn&#8217;t rush to that conclusion in any particular instance. It&#8217;s still important to think carefully.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ethical Consumerism is Hard by Tom Simcoe</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2012/02/14/ethical-consumerism-is-hard/#comment-5772</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Simcoe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 01:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://businessethicsblog.com/?p=5929#comment-5772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So is your conclusion that there is no &quot;right&quot; answer in the ethics of consumption? That when ethical considerations compete it becomes a matter of personal preference? I struggle with this as I use my iPad (ethical status - as yet undetermined). The technology has been a force for positive social change and a blessing for the disabled, among other benefits, but there are those pesky labor issues... Where does personal ethical choice end and rationalization begin?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So is your conclusion that there is no &#8220;right&#8221; answer in the ethics of consumption? That when ethical considerations compete it becomes a matter of personal preference? I struggle with this as I use my iPad (ethical status &#8211; as yet undetermined). The technology has been a force for positive social change and a blessing for the disabled, among other benefits, but there are those pesky labor issues&#8230; Where does personal ethical choice end and rationalization begin?</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Can Business &#8216;Give Back&#8217; to Society? by Z</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2012/01/31/how-can-business-give-back-to-society/#comment-5756</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Z]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 22:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://businessethicsblog.com/?p=5727#comment-5756</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I like the concept of social license to operate.  It is good to see that the CEO of a big company values the social responsibilities of his company.  This seems to be a overarching trend in business.  Companies are increasingly focused on more than just profit generating ventures.  As people as a whole becomes more socially conscious, companies stand to gain a lot of goodwill from such activities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the concept of social license to operate.  It is good to see that the CEO of a big company values the social responsibilities of his company.  This seems to be a overarching trend in business.  Companies are increasingly focused on more than just profit generating ventures.  As people as a whole becomes more socially conscious, companies stand to gain a lot of goodwill from such activities.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sexism in Coffee Shops by Anca Gheaus</title>
		<link>http://businessethicsblog.com/2007/11/14/sexism-in-coffee-shops/#comment-5754</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anca Gheaus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thebusinessethicsblog.wordpress.com/2007/11/14/sexism-in-coffee-shops#comment-5754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am afraid I cannot point to any particular study, but I don&#039;t think that what we know about implicit bias suggests that it is impossible to make individuals more conscious of their biases. To the contrary, experts say that &#039;Simply being aware that implicit bias exists and that it is a normal and widespread consequence of “being human” is a good first step to help us reduce its influence on our decisions.&#039; (Shawn Marsh, in a paper I found via gogle here: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&amp;pid=sites&amp;srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxyYWNpYWxlcXVpdHljb21tdW5pdHlhY3Rpb258Z3g6NjE3OGIwMmRhYjlkOTU4MA&amp;pli=1)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am afraid I cannot point to any particular study, but I don&#8217;t think that what we know about implicit bias suggests that it is impossible to make individuals more conscious of their biases. To the contrary, experts say that &#8216;Simply being aware that implicit bias exists and that it is a normal and widespread consequence of “being human” is a good first step to help us reduce its influence on our decisions.&#8217; (Shawn Marsh, in a paper I found via gogle here: <a href="https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&#038;pid=sites&#038;srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxyYWNpYWxlcXVpdHljb21tdW5pdHlhY3Rpb258Z3g6NjE3OGIwMmRhYjlkOTU4MA&#038;pli=1" rel="nofollow">https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&#038;pid=sites&#038;srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxyYWNpYWxlcXVpdHljb21tdW5pdHlhY3Rpb258Z3g6NjE3OGIwMmRhYjlkOTU4MA&#038;pli=1</a>)</p>
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